“4-ounce” rockets? What does that mean? Well, if you’re interested in the history of the term and some further background information on rockets in general, you can find it in the Introduction to Rockets article. But if you’re more interested in getting started, let’s go!
Specifically, in this project we are going to make a 4-ounce (1/2-inch ID), nozzled, cored, stick-stabilized, black-powder skyrocket with a bag-shell heading.
Here’s a diagram. You’ll see references to it throughout this project.
Black Powder Rocket Diagram
But they are large enough to be really impressive, with that black-powder-rocket “whoosh”? as they launch. They can also carry a nice payload of stars or other garnitures into the air. Working with them will provide plenty of experimentation, experience, research and development, and plain old fire-working fun. This is one “Quarter Pounder” you won’t have to drive to McDonalds to get!
Howdy, Well in my novice pursuit of making these 1/2″ ID Rockets, I took a bit of information from the “Nozzeless Rocket” info and made 4 oz of the mineral oil fuel, it didn’t go well even though I added a bit more Potassium to the mix. One Rocket flew the others just stood on the pipe like a Fountain (after 5 rockets I am not impressed with my ability). I just made one with my Red Gum BP and a bentonite nozzel and that Critter took off and went straight up out and out of sight……….Now thats some good Shits and Giggles. The next batch will have some 3/4″ long hand wound headers made with newspaper wound around a round pensil and masking tape and visco fuse filled with flash powder………………that little bit makes a good bang that can be clearly heard a 200 plus feet high.
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The other thing you can try is adding air float charcoal to the gun powder. Mix a half pound of the powder with 5 percent air float, if that doesn’t work try 10 percent. You’re going to have to wet the mix with some alcohol or water, mix it really well then screen it and let it dry. You can dial in the burn rate of the powder this way and get your rockets to really fly.
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Blowing up like firecrackers!!!!!
I want to make rockets fly.
I am using the hollow core rocket tooling set for the 1/2 inch black powder rockets, am using the tubes from the plasma cutter fountain project. I have packed the powder from moderate with a rawhide mallet to hard as ceramic grain on a gear press. I have eliminated the clay nozzle, They still blow up. I am using German made Schutzen powder 3f grade that I got a deal on 20 pounds a few years ago. I have blown a pound of it already and get nothing but boom, no fly….HELP
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Vince Reply:
August 1st, 2011 at 9:49 AM
Dale, it sounds like you have to slow that powder down a bit. Try adding some mineral oil to it. You might be able to make end burning rockets instead of hollow core with that powder also. The rockets described in this article are being made with home made powder that is typically not as fast burning as commercial powder. Experiment, experiment, experiment. That’s the fun of this hobby.
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Yes…I use a Thumblers Tumbler “B” Model and mill the nitrate, sulfur, and airfloat charcoal together for 12 hours in 500gram batches. I simply add the 80 and 36mesh charcoal afterwards (not ball milled) by screening it all together through window screen, three times. When I’m ready to make rockets I dampen several cups of the fuel with 50/50 mix rubbing alcohol/water…just enough so it sticks together (like damp beach sand…not dripping wet)…then I hammer ram the fuel increments
I don’t use bentonite clay for nozzles…I use sanded tile grout (Home Depot) which works wonderfully and I don’t make a bulkhead over the last increment (time delay) …4-ounce rockets don’t need them!.
You can vary that formula by using this for a VERY long sparkly tail!
60 kno3
9 s
20 af
6 80m
5 36m
Let us know how it works out.
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Harry
Here’s a great formula for 4oz rocket fuel that I always use:
Pot Nitrate 60%
Sulfur 9%
C AF 20%
C 80mesh 10%
C 36mesh 1%
gives a nice sparkly tail
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Harry Balls Reply:
April 26th, 2011 at 5:36 PM
Do you use a ball mill?
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It has taken some time and a lot of money, my efforts are paying off. I succesfully launched my first 4 oz. bp rocket. I will continue to use my ball mill to create my fuel. All the info I have read screen powders to create bp. If you have recently decided to make rockets and have a ball mill use it. WHY GET ANY MORE DIRTY THAN NECESSARY. I purchased a small ball mill from skylighter it works great. I will be altering the 60-30-10 standard increaseing the ratio of af charcoal by 10%.. It came to this by adding 5% af charcoal remilling for 4 hours x 2 to get a rocket to fly.
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Hey Ned,
I love the whistle rockets that you showed us how to make. They have never failed to impress all who see them! My question is do you think I could lift a 3″ or 4″ ball shell on top of one of these bad boys? My rocket tooling is a Wolter extreme 1 lb whislte rocket set using your fuel formula. I want to have more success with pattern shells!!
Thanks Ned
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ned Reply:
November 6th, 2010 at 1:21 PM
Hi, Lonny.
I’m glad to hear you’re impressin’ the crowds with the whistle rockets. Whistlers and Strobers are sure to catch one’s attention when they fly.
Are you making 3/4″ ID motors?
I would think you could lift a 3 or 4″ ball shell with one of those, if the fuel is tuned to the tooling for good thrust.
As usual, my advice is “try it, and see how it works”…within reasonable safety guidelines, of course.
The nice thing about lifting headings on rocket motors is that if the heading’s display is timed correctly, the shell’s display will always be “flat” to the viewing angle of an audience. This can be especially advantageous for pattern shells.
Good luck and let us know how they go.
ned
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Lonny Reply:
November 8th, 2010 at 9:38 PM
Thanks Ned,
Yes they are 3/4″ ID motors. It sure looked to me like the they could do the job but a second educated opinion is always better. I tried the pattern shells from your project, everything was straight forward and with in my skill set but man is it a heart breaker when it opens on edge and everyone says ” Oh no Lonny I totally saw it, good job picaso.” any how I can’t wait to get crackin on some prototypes!!!
Thanks again Ned!!
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Lonny Reply:
December 5th, 2010 at 9:59 PM
Howdy Ned,
Tried a 3″ ball shell on one of my whistle rockets, worked great!!! lifted it easily and the happy face opened up just right for all to see. far as I can tell a 4″ shell should’nt be a problem. Something else new I tried, vacuum sealing my rocket motors. As you know whistle mix is hygroscopic. I have a standard counter top vacuum sealer and thought, hey that would keep moisture out during storage. works like a champ!
Thanks for the advice Ned
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ned Reply:
December 6th, 2010 at 8:31 AM
That’s great, Lonny.
Whistlers are real attention-grabbers.
And, the nice thing about lifting pattern shells on rockets is that you can pretty well guarantee that they at least break “flat” to the earth. They might be upside-down, but they won’t break sideways to the viewers.
I like the idea of vacuum sealing those motors.
Some folks carefully stretch wrap them..some bag them with packets of dessicant.
Be careful when using an electric-pump sealer, though. If it sucks any dust into the unit, it could cause “problems”. Whistle motors aren’t dusty, but there’s always that possibility when working with electric kitchen appliances.
Ziplock does have a little hand-manual-pump vacuum sealing process, with a pump that looks like the one you’d pump up sports balls with, and bags that have a special “fitting” on them which allows air to be pumped out, but not back in.. The bags might be reusable in this situation. You might check them out.
Keep having fun and stay safe,
ned
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Lonny Reply:
December 12th, 2010 at 1:04 PM
Hey Ned,
Thats a good idea. Had’nt thought of the zip lock ones, they would be perfect. The rocket motors I dont mind doing but stars would be out of the question because there will alwys be dust presant. The zip locks will work great for that perpose. Thanks for the good advice Ned.
Lonny
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Lonny Reply:
April 3rd, 2011 at 1:18 PM
Howdy Ned,
I was wondering if you had ever made any smoke stars for daylight shells? I have found a couple of formulas’ on line but they either use chlorates or chemicals I’ve never heard of before. I’ve wanted to try this every since I saw a daylight dahlia shell on you tube, it was pretty impressive.
Thanks Ned,
Lonny
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You really don’t need the CA glue…if you hammer ram the delay over the spindle properly, and your fuel is about equivalent to mine, the delay column works just fine and ignites the garnishments perfectly!
CA glue is much too expensive to waste like that!!!!!!
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I don’t use a bulkhead on my rockets either. I usually make 50 rockets in a sitting. I line them up and use a drop of CA glue in each for a bulkhead. I get the CA from Tower hobby. The thin stuff. If you want a delay just pound a bit of slow burning powder then CA that. It burns through great.
Please use this at your own risk. I am NOT a chemist nor am I a “pyro” expert. I only know that I have used this for 100″s of rockets and it works for me. Any comments welcome.
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My formula for 4oz rockets is a little different:
KNO3: 60%
Sulfur: 9
C AF: 20
C 80m 11
I ball mill the nitrate, AF and sulfur for 12 hours then add enough water to make a mud ball while adding in the 80 mesh charcoal. Once all mixed and wet I push it through window screen and when it’s dry I load my rockets.
For the nozzle I use sanded tile grout.
They take off quickly…burn smoothly… and I don’t use a bulkhead…it’s not needed!
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Safety 101
10-06-2010
My first accident in 63 years.
It was getting late, and I decided to static test fire one of my 4oz rocket engines in the back yard. I had a stand made for it, so the engine would be strapped onto the stand with the nozzle pointing up. I decided to fire it from my workshop, using an old battery powered ignition controller. I would observe the ignition standing behind the workshop door. So far, all was going well.
I dug out some old igniters, but they were so old, that when I pre-tested one, it fell apart, including the ignition switch on the old controller. Not wanting to give up, I decided to use a piece of (old fuse) I had. The fuse is suppose to burn at a rate of 2 feet per minute. I cut off 15 seconds worth, to give myself enough time to get up the steps, and into my workshop before ignition. Even though it had rained all day, and enerything was soaked, I had the garden hose ready, just in case, and positioned the test stand about 5 feet from the steps to my workshop door. So far, so good.
Things start going down hill quickly. As soon as I lit the fuse, it started burning reeeeeal fast. I thought “Oh shi**”!
I turned and made a dash for my workshop door. The last thing I remembered was lying on my back, looking at the ceiling of the porch over the door to my workshop. I tried to get up, and crawl to safety behind the workshop door, but was in so much pain, all I could do was lay there, (about 6 feet from the untested engine), hoping the engine wouldn’t malfunction. While I was struggling to get to my feet, the engine ignited. It made one hell’ve racket, that got the attention of my wife, who was in the kitchen fixing dinner. She looked out the kitchen window and saw me rolling around on the workshop porch (trying to get up), and thought I had been hurt by the rocket engine. By the time she made it out to my workshop, I had managed to get to my feet. That’s when I realized what had happened. I was in such a hurry to escape the rapid burning fuse, the sole of one of my aging house slippers came loose, and caught on the lip of the bottom rung of the (3) wooden steps to my workshop. I apparently made a grab for the railing as I fell.
About that time the pain set in. My left shoulder hurt like a son-of-a- *&^%$#$. When I looked at it, I noticed I had dislocated the arm bone(it was sticking out where it wasn’t supposed to). I popped it back in place with the palm of my right hand. That smarted a bit too! Then my wife said “what happened to your knee”? It was bleeding profusely. I apparently laid it open when it hit the steps, as the rest of me was on it’s way to meet up with the porch floor. When I decided to go inside and clean my knee, I noticed my right foot didn’t work so well. Four of my five toes were looking straight up at me as if to say, “what did you do that for”? When I fell up the steps, besides dislocating my shoulder, gashing my knee, I bent my toes backwards on my right foot. I was apparently in so much pain form my other acrobatics, I didn’t notice the toes had been rearranged.
I managed to hobble in to work the following day, but was sorer than a 10 cent call girl. There was something good that came out of all the chaos. My experimental engine worked great. Unfortunately, all I got to see was the ceiling of my workshop porch!
Moral of the story:
Don’t wear old house slippers with a loose sole while testing a new rocket engine.
Never use old fuse to ignite an experimental engine.
Never use an old ignition controller to test fire an experimental engine.
Never attempt to use an old igniter to test fire an experimental engine.
Never try to out run an old fuse.
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Jerry Bohnert Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:08 PM
I first want to say i am sorry for your hertings. but one thing i did get a good cry,chuckle and had to stop crying laufing. again i am sorry.Just was not your day I guess. yours truly
Jerry
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Bob Gross Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:27 PM
Thanks Jerry.
I laughed until I cried too (once the pain subsided).
Bob Gross
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Ned
The only smoke is good ol’ black powder smoke. I suppose if you added a lot more it might be a little gray but that would deminish the burn rate quite a bit. The oil is just to dampen the powder a little.
Robert
The only endburn motor that works okay is a 3/8 ID motor with about a 3’4 to 1′ long grain and a 1/16′ dia nozzel made with a drill bit by hand and a little core depth into the fuel (maybe 1/4″). They will lift a light model or make a nice bottle rocket, a little fine titanium makes a nice effect at night.
I have used this fuel for motors up to 1″ ID (6lb?) I am not learned on the firework designation of rockets.
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My fuel is made by milling for one hour, Potassium nitrate 354gm, (76.2%) Air float charcoal 69gm(15.3%) Sulphur 38gm (8.5%). Then I add 10-12 gm motor oil (10w-30 . is fine) to prevent dust and to help in compaction, mill for additional 15 min. I tested them on a scale and got a max thrust of 12lb. I use them mostley for model rockets.
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ned Reply:
September 30th, 2010 at 5:25 PM
Do you notice much of a black smoke trail from that 2.5% oil, Kev?
I’m glad they’re workin’ well for you.
ned
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Robert Reply:
September 30th, 2010 at 6:33 PM
Kev, have you tried that propellant, with or without the oil, in end burners?
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I do’nt know about you but it looked a little underpowered.
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Lonny Reply:
September 5th, 2010 at 8:45 PM
i don’t know about underpowered but the delay on a couple of them seemed a little long. the other one was spot on. you could ball mill your BP longer or exp. with the % to get more power out of the fuel. how do you make your’s? I’m all about more power.
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Awesome, thanks for the reply Ned. I found the archve now with all the back issues in it, thats a great resource.
Thanks!
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Lonny Reply:
August 26th, 2010 at 12:32 AM
Hey Matt,
The press is pretty satisfying to make. It works like a dream too. Best of all, a whole new world of pyro opens up with it !
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Ohhhh, I see. Thanks Ned. As usual you are a big help. The kit looks great and I now see the process in a much better light. Thanks!
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Lonny mentions the 1 lb rockets above the home made press, where are the plans for these ?
I think I will have to get the kit you have listed Harry, it will go well with my TurboPyro!
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ned Reply:
August 24th, 2010 at 9:18 AM
Matt, the plans for the press are in here:
http://skylighter.com/skylighter_info_pages/article.asp?Item=149#art
and here is an idea for a simply modifiec, one-ton Harbor Freight arbor press which you can get for $49:
http://pyrobin.com/files/mod%2027.jpg
Pressing opens up a whole new world of motor-types: nozzleless, whistle, strobe, ,color tailed, hybrid, and more.
But, use the NEPTubes (high-quality tubes) when pressing motors. The high-quality Skylighter 3/4″ tubes are an example of these tubes.
ned
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Is their a PDF for this project?
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Excellent article. Well written and complete. Very understandable for beginners like me.
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In the promotion for the new tool kit you say there is a video. I would be helpful if you could link to the video so those of us who are rookie pyro lurkers could feel confident we understand the process before springing for the kit….
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ned Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:18 AM
If you click on the “Continue Reading…” link above, the offer for the rocket-kit, and the embedded videos, are all in that project that you’ll go to.
Thanksk for all the kind feedback, too.
ned
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I am sorry I am a little pissed off But I just spent 30 minutes trying to find out how much it costs and what your selling in the kit I GIVE UP
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What you show us to make for FREE is a great help Harry. I realy got into fireworks about 2 years ago and cant stop! Drives my wife crazy. I made my own cannon and my own 12volt fireing system, not to shabby if I say so my self!! All with the help of some of your Ideas Thanks Gonna be laid up from neck surgery for the next 8 months so keep the projects coming. Now as you say, or me! go blow something up
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Hi freaks,
I`m Sami, working in an special effects company in Frankfurt Germany.Every time I enjoy reading your e-mails. A good mixture between comercial,info,good ideas and crasy reports. Thanks a lot…
what do you think about selfmade radio controled black powder or amonium nitrate powered rockets, running time 20 -40 seconds?
In Germany we wish: “Gut Schuss” (good shot)
Sami
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oops lift in to the sky sorry
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i have been using ESTES rocket motors for my rockets i was not having to good of luck geting the right amount of lift charge for my round shells one day i wach this amazing video of this guy using rockets to life his in the sky i was sold on the ideal have not been disapointed yet i have looked in to making my own motors but the tooling can run you a good 100 just for the tool the estes web site will tell you what size motor for what size paylode if you wont to try this out with out forking out the money at frist
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A great artical i leaarn a lot from this site so tell me when you start to ship to the UK
well done once again
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Free is my favorite 4 letter word. I collect cat tails for rocket sticks. They are straight and if you tie them together to dry they stay straight.
The cheapest clay cat litter you can find makes great nozzle stuff. you don’t have to grind it. Just use as is. It binds to the side of the case great. You can add a bit of wax to it if you would like. You can buy a 25 pound bag for a couple of bucks at wallyworld.
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I wish you wouldn’t refer to the wetting and drying and re-sieving of the BP mix as “granulating” or “regranulating”, because you’re not trying to form granules. I wish there were a good short term for this technique for making a version of home meal; “mealing” maybe? It’s useful for a lot more than sky rockets.
Not a bad intro price for the kit considering what some would charge for the tooling alone. If I were better off financially I’d consider it. For now I’m going to stick to no-tooling motors — end burners using ball milled BP (initial success with 3/8″), wet cast core burners using blender comp, possibly whistles.
I didn’t see any reference to a sleeve in your tooling kit. Don’t need one for motors that small in internal diameter?
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Barney Reply:
August 20th, 2010 at 7:59 PM
I think you would do well to reread the text and pay close attention to the details then maybe you would get that the quoted text: “The granulation step results in rocket fuel which is not very dusty when it is used.”, is indeed a granulation process. People like you, that think you know it all and don’t pay particular attention to experts are the type that get themselves severely injured when doing a pyro project like the one outlined in the article. Do the pyro community a favor, study more and talk less.
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Robert Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 3:31 PM
That was uncalled for, Barney.
The purpose of the step is not granulation. In fact, you would want to avoid granulation if you could, as the CIA method tries to do. The purpose is to make the propellant faster by incorporating its ingredients more intimately.
The only hard ingredient in BP is the KNO3. You can’t literally soften it, you can only make it finer. When people use mill dust to make rockets, they don’t wet and dry it. Doing so could only result in larger bits of KNO3 as it recrystallized.
It’s nice that as a byproduct of the wetting and drying, you get a less dusty BP because you’re agglomerating the air float charcoal, but that’s not why it’s done. A dusty powder rams very well, and while the strewing of dust is not a good thing, it would not be worthwhile to agglomerate the powder to make it less dusty if it were already incorporated as well as wetting and drying does it, or even better by milling. Oher means of dust control are used in commercial rocket mfg.
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ned Reply:
August 21st, 2010 at 8:46 AM
Actually, Robert, the goal of the “granulating” step is, indeed, the formation of small, soft, non-dusty granules. They make the use of the fuel much easier, less dusty, and they keep all the chemical ingredients intimately and proportionately mixed.
When hand-ramming these motors, with some dialing-in of moderate pounding, no sleeve is needed. When one steps up to pressing motors with a press, then the support sleeves become necessary.
It’s actually preferable to ram a motor by hand without a sleeve, just in case the motor is accidentally ignited and explodes, god forbid. (which is completely preventable by following the tips in the tutorial, such as not using metal in the fuel around the spindle, and marking and observing the rammer do-not-pass lines.)
In that case, there would only be paper bits flying, and not pvc and/or metal shrapnel.
ned
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Lonny Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at 8:41 PM
great project ned,
pretty soon i’ll have to get me the tools for 1lb black powder rockets. Going off your project plans for the hydraulic rocket press and whistle rockets along with a wolter 1lb whislte rocket set i’ve made some awsome whistle rockets with a howl that’ll make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.
None of the parts for the press were to expensive(mind you the steel came from work), however the plastics store sure was proud of the lexan! I paid 43 bucks for that little 1\2″ blast sheild. Beats taking an accident to the face so no price really is to much compared to blindness.
Anyway just thought I’d say another great project Ned. Hope everyones 4th was as fun as ours!!!
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ned Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 8:37 AM
Hi, Lonny.
Thanks.
Black powder rockets do provide that satisfying Whoosh and charcoal-tail, don’t they. The one-pounders can be nice and impressive.
The whistle and strobe rockets never fail to grab folks’ attention as they launch. Darn cool.
I do like that homemade press, and use mine all the time.
Fortunately I got my Lexan as scrap. I didn’t realize it cost that much new. But, as you say, the safety shield is darn good insurance.
Happy Rocketeering!
ned
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looks like a good way to announce the back yard BBQ
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